this money is directly taken away from higher education -- >> brian: cal continually votes in the people who believe in funding those pensions beyond belief. >> absolutely. >> gretchen: at the same time, you're losing what people argue is the job creators by the millions are leaving california, right? >> it's important to note that california has a debt of around $80 billion. it's very little in compared to other countries that have that kind of a gdp that we have, which is almost $2 trillion. so we are nowhere to be in trouble financially if ha wait a minute we just every year for decades had a 10, $50 billion deficit because we just spent too much money. >> steve: as big as the deficit is in california, it doesn't even approach what we're heading toward here in the united states of america. >> that is really tough because when you talk about $16 trillion, i mean, this is the last few years come from ten to $16 trillion. that is troubling. then on top of it, you have the deficit, which is like a trillion and a half every year. i mean, we are talking about a lot of money, and on top of i